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I'm intrigued about all these different Catholics, and enjoy your descriptions about them. Would you be able to expand a bit more for each?
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Magick practising Christians?
- Thread starter slim116
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I'm not a Christian but I admire the Jesus arquetype.
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Sure thing. But this a simply gigantic, globe-spanning topic. Just to hit a few highlights.
There's this weird persistent myth among Protestants and "ex" Protestants that because the Catholic Church has a centralized administrative bureaucracy in Rome, all two billion Catholics across the earth are operating in lockstep. Anyone who has actually spent time inside Catholic culture, even down to the town and parish level, knows the reality is completely chaotic and deeply local.
Why there is a blind spot, I am not really sure. I think most occultists think in (bad) Neoplatonic terms and forget they have a body. At the level of the loca, where you have a body , is where you find spirits - of the land, culture, place, and books. And they live through us, and we are not the same cultures, and so we all resonate with different daimons and spirits predicated on our own local culture, history, climate, expectation, and temperament.
Suffice to say, I think the contact between the type of cultures exported from cold Northern countries puts a mark on people they can’t see. So, the chaotic sorcery and mysticism of Latin America Catholicism is almost totally different from the historical "Pay, Pray, and Obey" model of Irish Catholicism, particularly the version exported to the US in the 19th and 20th centuries , which is austere, heavily legalistic, and focused on institutional compliance.
Haitian, Brazilian, and Filipino Folk Catholicism are very similar to Mexican Catholicism. Whereas Bavarian/Austrian Alpine Catholicism is a hyper-traditional, highly entrenched establishment Kultur Catholicism. It’s tied to regional identity, folk festivals, and brass bands, and is similar to other European religious expressions like Irish Catholicism. The Sub-Saharan African, and Asian Catholicisms I've heard of but know little about
And then there is the Catholic Economic Left of Marxist Liberation Theology. Which adds yes another whole other dimension. Hardcore worker rights advocates there, which is why trans-national finance power really hates Catholics, not that they really care about "the gays". That's just PR. . The MIC is not a friend either, with their" gay-friendly" hellfire missiles.
Catholics are also mostly anti-war and anti-death penalty. Oh no! But again this is encouraged by culture, not a straitjacket.Then when you start diving down to the local level into a single parish in a single town . Even in the same pew, Catholics are very different. Sit in the back row of any local church on a Sunday and look at the people sharing the same bench:
One person is an old-school mystic who reads 16th-century Spanish Carmelites and treats the faith as an internal mystical castle. The person next to them is a political activist who views the entire Gospel strictly through the lens of structural liberation theology and class struggle. The person next to them is a hyper-rationalist who treats Thomas Aquinas like a programming language, while their own spouse is there purely for Mass nd maybe, more recently, some are TradCath ex-Protestants looking to turn the Church into a blood-and-soil European expressions. We are not the same.
Traditional Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are very magickal religions. The whole structure of pre-Reformation Christianity is initiatic and it is a direct descendant of the Graeco-Egyptian Mystery Cults. The main difference is that in our Mystery Cult, the Logos put on human flesh and initiated the Apostles who then went on to initiate everybody else.
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Your references to dhikr remind me of praying the Jesus Prayer (Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me) over and over. You get to high enough numbers and you start tripping haaard.
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Agreed!
I keep waiting for the hard link from Catholicism to Orphism to show up eventually. I mean it's all sitting right there. The damn things both look like the same religion just communicated using very surface-level but different cultural vernaculars.
We also don't have to wait for a theological and shamanic equivalent to Piltdown Man to link them up. The current consensus among modern historians of religion suggests Orphic and Catholicism represent the same shifts in human consciousness in the Mediterranean basin we are still "in" today.
Until then the classic civic Greek pagan religion was transactional. You sacrifice a bull to Zeus so he doesn't strike your crops with lightning. Orphism, emerged around the 6th century BCE introduced an entirely new vocabulary of the soul that early Christian theologians naturally adopted. We're still living in that same world.
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Thanks for taking the time. Dayum, Catholicism is so vast.Sure thing. But this a simply gigantic, globe-spanning topic. Just to hit a few highlights.
There's this weird persistent myth among Protestants and "ex" Protestants that because the Catholic Church has a centralized administrative bureaucracy in Rome, all two billion Catholics across the earth are operating in lockstep. Anyone who has actually spent time inside Catholic culture, even down to the town and parish level, knows the reality is completely chaotic and deeply local.
Why there is a blind spot, I am not really sure. I think most occultists think in (bad) Neoplatonic terms and forget they have a body. At the level of the loca, where you have a body , is where you find spirits - of the land, culture, place, and books. And they live through us, and we are not the same cultures, and so we all resonate with different daimons and spirits predicated on our own local culture, history, climate, expectation, and temperament.
Suffice to say, I think the contact between the type of cultures exported from cold Northern countries puts a mark on people they can’t see. So, the chaotic sorcery and mysticism of Latin America Catholicism is almost totally different from the historical "Pay, Pray, and Obey" model of Irish Catholicism, particularly the version exported to the US in the 19th and 20th centuries , which is austere, heavily legalistic, and focused on institutional compliance.
Haitian, Brazilian, and Filipino Folk Catholicism are very similar to Mexican Catholicism. Whereas Bavarian/Austrian Alpine Catholicism is a hyper-traditional, highly entrenched establishment Kultur Catholicism. It’s tied to regional identity, folk festivals, and brass bands, and is similar to other European religious expressions like Irish Catholicism. The Sub-Saharan African, and Asian Catholicisms I've heard of but know little about
And then there is the Catholic Economic Left of Marxist Liberation Theology. Which adds yes another whole other dimension. Hardcore worker rights advocates there, which is why trans-national finance power really hates Catholics, not that they really care about "the gays". That's just PR. . The MIC is not a friend either, with their" gay-friendly" hellfire missiles.
Then when you start diving down to the local level into a single parish in a single town . Even in the same pew, Catholics are very different. Sit in the back row of any local church on a Sunday and look at the people sharing the same bench:
One person is an old-school mystic who reads 16th-century Spanish Carmelites and treats the faith as an internal mystical castle. The person next to them is a political activist who views the entire Gospel strictly through the lens of structural liberation theology and class struggle. The person next to them is a hyper-rationalist who treats Thomas Aquinas like a programming language, while their own spouse is there purely for Mass nd maybe, more recently, some are TradCath ex-Protestants looking to turn the Church into a blood-and-soil European expressions. We are not the same.
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Thanks for sharing your practices. Super interesting methods, and using both religions is hardcore. The psyche split must be immense. Im AuDHD and i tend to start 5 different currents then burn out, then purge, then start from scratch again with one current again... then eventually i start more. Probably different from what your talking about since it seems you go deep into 2 religions, instead of scattering with 5.
Been doing jesus prayers with my own modified prayer beads, i got to say, i am addicted. Instead of checking my phone in down times, i just smash out a 100 JPs. Its not like a hard hit ofenergy, but i feel strangely peaceful and want more.
I am also doing mantra alongside to attain siddhi, doing 1000x "shreem" for 10 days. I hit a block where my mind just didnt want to do it anymore around 700, but i pushed on, then eventually it became a mean rush.
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I don't consider myself a Christian anymore, but I know what you mean here. The Eucharist is one of the most powerful magics I have experienced, and extraordinarily beautiful. Somehow, despite all the failings of the church, something incredibly pure and selflessly loving still lives at the heart of it all. I just can't deal with any of the rest of it anymore.