• Hi guest! As you can see, the new Wizard Forums has been revived, and we are glad to have you visiting our site! However, it would be really helpful, both to you and us, if you registered on our website! Registering allows you to see all posts, and make posts yourself, which would be great if you could share your knowledge and opinions with us! You could also make posts to ask questions!

Difference between angels and demons

iseht

Neophyte
Joined
Nov 29, 2025
Messages
34
Reaction score
86
In occultism what is the difference between angels and demons?
Whether It is difference in appearance or nature, Offering or work field?
If both are helpful and give assistance in magic, why they are mentioned as different entities?
In spritual world how they behave differently ?
As with all things its been my experience that these being, and others, all live on a gradient. The Angels that Dee and Kelley spoke with may have been angels, but they very clearly also seemed to be tricksters. Demon's in disguise? Dee began to feel that the ones they were contacting were diabolical in nature.Or is it that there is in fact no such distinction between the two and they are simply beings living across the same gradient of good and evil that humans occupy?

Likewise Enochian angels are said to be so alien and terrifying that its one of the most feared branches of magic, are they still angels? I have dabbled in this area and found things so unnervingly raw that I could not possibly look further at the time.

This is the distinction drawn in the east, where countless heirarchies exist, each one not so different from its other neighbors. There many be 'demons' that trend towards helpfulness. If we believe that within all of us exists a spark of the divine that returns towards the true one, does that simply fade away never to return if we spend a life time in some minor hell?
 

supremecoyote

Apprentice
Joined
Oct 27, 2025
Messages
95
Reaction score
202
Awards
1
A quote from Crowley himself

"was in the death struggle with self: God and Satan fought for my soul those three long hours. God conquered — now I have only one doubt left — which of the twain was God?"

when referring to Hebrew Lore "Adonai" ..... Adonai and his angels are typically seen as celestial and righteous ( bound to the cosmos ) that operate on higher frequencies. Some "holy" angels however are bound to guard over sheol ( hell ) like Malik and the Zabaniyah, Uriel, Abaddon who is the angel of the "the pit". More complex angels with conflicting lore like Samael ( the accuser / angel of punishment/ angel of death in the Talmud "Good angel tasked with dirty work under Adonai" ) but in Kabbalah he's seen as the consort to Lilith herself and the archenemy of Israel.

Gnostic interpretation of "Adonai" claim that he is a "false ruler" according to the Apocryphon of John. We talk about Archons which rule over the different planets and planes of reality. They function similarly to a prison warden. In Gnostic texts Samael and Adonai are the same entity but different names for " the Demiurge". Adonai is perceived as lower frequency and antagonistic in these texts.

Demons/ Infernals/ Goetia are normally perceived as low vibrational ( bound to Sheoul ). Words like Satan translate to "adversary". Howeverrrrr... Azazel a prominent grigori that corresponds to Saturn and Duedal translates to "scapegoat" ( something to place blame on to ). Azazel's crime against Adonai was educating humanity on weapons, cosmetology, and procreation of the Nephiliem. Azazel is one of the few fallen angels that wasn't exiled to Hell but rather exiled and bound to Dudael ( a desert in the material plane). Lucifer simply questioned his own angelic autonomy against Adonai. Lilith didn't want to be subservient to men. We perceive these demons to be distrustful and deceiving according to Abrahamic lore, however their "crimes" seem rather trivial compared to Adonai's wrath against humanity who has committed genocide, mass smiting of villages and individuals several times. He also cursed the entirety of humanity for one woman simply perceiving knowledge he did not want humanity to perceive. So what did Eve perceive that was so damning to her entire bloodline ?

In my opinion, there is no real distinction between "angels and demons". "God" or "Satan"... as above so below, they're all the same just with different ranks in their respective hierarchy, different correspondences and different ways of being useful to the devotee/ practitioner. Some entities are bound to the cosmos and "heaven" , some bound to Hell, and some bound to the material plane. Which side of the "battle field" is more "trustworthy and honest" to the practitioner is objective and up to the practitioner's discernment.
 

Ziran

Disciple
Benefactor
Joined
Oct 20, 2023
Messages
533
Reaction score
1,110
Awards
7
If angels were rare wouldn't it be rare to find someone that works with an angel? Then theres the concept of people having guardian angels and wouldn't that take a lot of angels to do? I'm just kind of confused on that point

Yes. 100%. Each individual has an effluence of vitality in the form of what many call a, singular, "guardian angel" who is "surrounded on all sides" by others, plural, in opposition to it.

"Surrounded on all sides" is in quotes because there are no "sides" in spirit. All is ominpresent and concurrent.

Angels work for free. Demons demand a price.

I agree but I also disagree.

If you have a built connection with them, they won't expect you to give. My demons often did/do more errands for me than I ever asked for, and they never ask anything in return (and they're the ones approaching me first, not the other way around) Our bond is reciprocal without rules or expectations, just like in a healthy relationship (either with a family, a partner, or friends).

Have you ever considered Angels and Demons as a sort of conjoined twins? If I understand, it fits well with what you've written above.

However, I do agree, it's best to offer something to demons if you are unknown to them, and there for 'business', they are not charity; they are low frequency entities, so they won't necessarily can do much with your 'gratitude' and 'happiness' that stems from a fulfilled wish, unlike angels. High frequency energy is rewarding them too, if you're in a positive state, demons are a bit different.

Agreed. For Demons it's not charity. For Angels it is.
 

Firetree

Acolyte
Joined
Jan 13, 2026
Messages
261
Reaction score
417
Awards
4
Discarding all the old definitions and not using daemons for spirits or whatever to cloud the definition.

So starting with a completely new definition without old baggage:
Angels are egregores and aligned with the celestial(The Heavens), demons were angels that were aligned with the celestial but fell out of alignment.

You just baffled me . Discard all the old traditions AND align angels with celestial and call demons fallen angels ????
 

intensity4ever

Neophyte
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
5
Reaction score
23
Greetings,

I AM thoroughly enjoying the dialogue and conversation, as I am new to these forums. Feels like home! With that being said, I would like to answer the question being posed from a magical sense as far as occultism and advanced demonology. I hope it doesn't veer off subject too much but I just wanted to give a more in-depth response in the event the intention is to eventually utilize these energies for divinatory purposes.

The distinctions between angels and demons extend into the intricacies of magical practices, spiritual hierarchies, and psychological archetypes. Angels are often perceived not merely as passive protectors, but as powerful entities involved in the execution of divine will, whose energies can be harnessed through rigorous ritualistic practices. In the Kabbalistic tradition, for instance, the study of the Tree of Life reveals a complex interplay between angels and the Sefirot, the ten attributes through which the divine manifests. Practitioners invoke angels through intricate rituals that may involve the creation of sacred symbols, talismans, and the recitation of specific divine names, designed to align the practitioner’s intention with the higher frequencies of the angelic realm.

Conversely, the practice of demonology seeks to engage with demons as forces of transformation. Each demon is often associated with specific aspects of human experience—whether it be desire, ambition, or even despair—allowing practitioners to engage with these darker energies in meaningful and transformative ways. For example, the Goetia, a section of the Lesser Key of Solomon, provides detailed descriptions of various demons and their corresponding sigils, which serve as focal points for summoning and communicating with these entities. Unlike traditional depictions of fearfulness, many occultists view demons as possessing specific knowledge about the human condition, and rituals often encourage a dialogue or bargaining process wherein practitioners seek wisdom or power rather than simple subjugation.

The magical practices surrounding both angels and demons involve a unique blend of symbols, correspondences, and personal intent. Rituals may incorporate elements like the use of consecrated tools, sacred geometry, and the invocation of elemental forces, providing a rich framework for engaging with these entities. Practitioners often prepare meticulously, engaging in purification rituals, meditation, and focused intention-setting to create a conducive environment for the energies at play. The ritual space becomes a liminal zone where the practitioner navigates between realms, utilizing the hierarchies of both angels and demons to harness their powers for personal and spiritual development.

Moreover, the psychological implications of such practices cannot be understated. Engaging with demons allows for a profound exploration of the self, as practitioners confront their shadows—those hidden fears and desires that often impede spiritual growth. This process of alchemical transformation—sometimes referred to as the “Great Work” in alchemical traditions—requires deep introspection and a willingness to confront one’s darker aspects while seeking integration and enlightenment. Thus, the practice of deep occultism transcends mere invocation, evolving into a comprehensive journey of self-discovery, empowerment, and the quest for ultimate spiritual truth.

In sum, the engagement with angels and demons in deep occultism is a sophisticated dance of energies that invites exploration and transformation. Through rigorous magical practices, ritualistic precision, and psychological introspection, practitioners navigate these realms to draw upon the profound powers they offer, ultimately aiming for personal and spiritual evolution in the face of duality.

Best,
The Shamanic Unicorn Seer aka "She Who knows".
 

Firetree

Acolyte
Joined
Jan 13, 2026
Messages
261
Reaction score
417
Awards
4
What baffles you?
Perhaps you could explain yourself.

It isnt obvious ? You first said 'to discard all the old traditions ' ... 'new definition' ... ' without old baggage ' and then went on to describe angels as celestial aligned and demons as fallen angels .

In supposedly getting away from old traditions , you stepped right in them .


I would say the Christian Biblical tradition is pretty 'old tradition'; common , prevalent and to a large proportion of people , underpinning their very concepts about such things ; Revelation 12:7–9 and Matthew 25:41. , Book of Enoch - demons ; shedim or mazziqin ' fallen angels ',

Also ; 'Iblis' in Islam , Pre-Judaism Canaanite belief ; '' ... he bənē hāʾĔlōhīm ('sons of God'), expelled from the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Hêlêl ben Šāḥar is thrown down from heaven for claiming equality with ʻElyōn .

There are actually too many examples to keep listing ;

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


That is what baffled me about your claim that your two ideas were completely new and without old baggage .
 

Kepler

Disciple
Joined
May 9, 2025
Messages
902
Reaction score
503
Awards
6
It isnt obvious ? You first said 'to discard all the old traditions ' ... 'new definition' ... ' without old baggage ' and then went on to describe angels as celestial aligned and demons as fallen angels .

In supposedly getting away from old traditions , you stepped right in them .


I would say the Christian Biblical tradition is pretty 'old tradition'; common , prevalent and to a large proportion of people , underpinning their very concepts about such things ; Revelation 12:7–9 and Matthew 25:41. , Book of Enoch - demons ; shedim or mazziqin ' fallen angels ',

Also ; 'Iblis' in Islam , Pre-Judaism Canaanite belief ; '' ... he bənē hāʾĔlōhīm ('sons of God'), expelled from the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Hêlêl ben Šāḥar is thrown down from heaven for claiming equality with ʻElyōn .

There are actually too many examples to keep listing ;

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


That is what baffled me about your claim that your two ideas were completely new and without old baggage .
I didn't say "discard all old traditions". What I wrote
Discarding all the old definitions
That was later clarified in the same post to mean starting with a clean definition to my model of the hyperdimensional immanent universe. Which I wasn't going to elaborate on beyond mentioning 'egregore' in this thread since I mention the model in many threads.

Reading more carefully may save you from bafflement and what seems like a feeble attempt on your part at a gotcha.
 

Firetree

Acolyte
Joined
Jan 13, 2026
Messages
261
Reaction score
417
Awards
4
I didn't say "discard all old traditions". What I wrote

Well, that was my mistake . Okay lets run with 'discard old definitions ' then .

I quoted wrongly, but now I don't really see how this changes things . What you wrote ARE the old definitions .

What you said in the post , thatI responded to and questioned , was brief and clear . I dont see how my questions do not relate to what you said in that post ?

That was later clarified in the same post to mean starting with a clean definition to my model of the hyperdimensional immanent universe. Which I wasn't going to elaborate on beyond mentioning 'egregore' in this thread since I mention the model in many threads.


Yes, I have read some of them( I think I even liked some of them ) ; still what you described is a traditional definition , regardless if your model ( .. the HIU ) was its source .
Reading more carefully may save you from bafflement and what seems like a feeble attempt on your part at a gotcha.

'' Seems like ''.... okay , if you want to be like that . Actually the reason I assumed MY CONFUSION is I am assuming there is something I dont understand in your post . I have read some of your other posts and thought they had depth and insight , which is why I admitted confusion about this . Otherwise I would have just written you off as a dickhead and not bothered to ask for clarity .

If I had not thought that , I would not have assumed I was confused , but that you were the confused poster .

Since I am still giving you validity , I was hoping you were able to explain to me how I am wrong .
 

Kepler

Disciple
Joined
May 9, 2025
Messages
902
Reaction score
503
Awards
6
What you wrote ARE the old definitions .
No they aren't. That is you misreading and arguing against your own misunderstanding.

Old definitions do not consider them celestial egregores specifically and only in an immanent hyperdimensional model of natural selection. There is no transcendental realm of perfect forms. There are no transcendental realms at all involved in that definition.
 

Firetree

Acolyte
Joined
Jan 13, 2026
Messages
261
Reaction score
417
Awards
4
No they aren't. That is you misreading and arguing against your own misunderstanding.

Old definitions do not consider them celestial egregores specifically and only in an immanent hyperdimensional model of natural selection.

I got that part ....

but I was referring to , as my citations showed ' demons / devils / satan etc ... as fallen angels ' .

You might be attaching your definition of demons , to angels, to egrigores , to your preferred model of the Universe ?
Is that right ?

I am not actually trying to be in conflict with you just seeking understanding .

Sometimes it is hard to interpret a short densely packed post without reference to everything someone else has written , which , considering the amount of valid posters here , is a lot ,for me, to keep in my head .
 

Kepler

Disciple
Joined
May 9, 2025
Messages
902
Reaction score
503
Awards
6
You might be attaching your definition of demons , to angels, to egrigores , to your preferred model of the Universe ?
Is that right ?
That is what "discarding all old definitions" meant when I wrote that in my first post in the thread. Perhaps that could be made clearer if I repeated it a few more times a few different ways.

but I was referring to , as my citations showed ' demons / devils / satan etc ... as fallen angels ' .
There is fallen in the sense of changes in celestial alignment to Earth's seasonal timings to the apparent astronomical background, but also in regards to a modern understanding of natural cosmology. For example, the modern fallen chiefs of the fallen angels are any transcendent god. As there is no reality to those phantasms of the mind.

There is another unaligned that isn't fallen which should be mentioned. The future aligned. The unknown rising angels. These can appear as demons to those trying to hang onto the recently fallen and old systems of thought.
 
Top